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what does solidarity really mean for the anarchist movement?

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Wayne
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Joined: 28-12-03
Oct 6 2004 18:59
Quote:
I suffer from a condition called "congenital spastic paraparesis" and when people use "spastic" as an insult it pisses me right off.

I suffer from a condition called 'intolerance' and when I have to explain something twice in one thread it pisses me right off. I also have Tourette's. Button... Fuck off.

WeTheYouth
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Joined: 16-10-03
Oct 6 2004 19:07
butchersapron wrote:
WeTheYouth wrote:

What teh fuck are you on about, it doesnt get much more simple that we are the working class, we are not some removed vanguardist bunch of bolshevik assholes, we are apart of the working class, therefore we are teh working class. How can you elaborate on that?

Relax bitch, be cool.

Your 'argument' is senseless. It's not an argument even, or a point. It's a assertion or statement. An assertion or statement which i'm challenging - which means that you (yes, you - playa!) got to bring some evidence for that assertion up. Join in - it's a game that adults play. Called debate and discussion.

Really, and what would you know of that?

Wayne
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Oct 7 2004 02:14

Jack, I think you've been drinking, it would explain your spelling of 'abolishion'

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andUp until now, I'd always wondered why revol and Wayne were so hostile to pro-Republican anarchists.

Suddenly, it all becomes clear...

When you posted that I thought you meant that you understood why we despise republicans for their piss analysis and general contemptibility as demonstrated by yrewenowsoembarssed, was I wrong?

If you've got an argument to make, fucking make it. Is Jack the beheader about to turn jack the knee-capper? black bloc black bloc star green black eek

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the button
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Oct 7 2004 08:15

Cheers for that, Wayne. Thought you were ignoring me. wink

Wayne
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Oct 7 2004 15:22

The battle of the Boyne? One nil to the good guys that one wink

Oh the Bogside, sorry! embarrassed

Interesting question, I've got some thoughts but can't write much because I've got a stinking hangover and am just going out. Sorry I said you'd been drinking when I was pissed out of my head and had just picked a fight with an economics student on my way home embarrassed

Briefly, I think the civil rights movement that had developed around then was obviously something anarchists would see as positive. It was also something congruent with capitalism's development which like other twentieth century anti-discriminatory movements, including elements of women's liberation and the civil rights movement in America, was in time always going to be irresistible. Recognising that doesn't denigrate those struggles or suggest participation in them was not apropriate and congruent with revolutionary politics. It was the nationalist element that was the biggest problem for the CR movement because the IRA were looking for a new focus after their disastrous and uninspiring border campaign and were more interested in demonstrating that catholics could never live well in Northern Ireland than creating a meritocratic capitalist society within the UK. On the other side there were unionists that sought to preserve a sectarian divide that had been an effective way of controlling the working class for decades and used protestant workers nationalist disdain for Irish unification to build violent hostility to the civil rights movement. The militant community resistance to the incursion into the Bogside was a legitimate and necessary response to repression, but recognising this shouldn't lead us to embrace nationalism. As the rioting spread and Bombay street got burned, the IRA were no longer seen as capable of defending the catholic community and these communities welcomed British troops as did the IS and many others. Because of their national loyalism the Provisionals received funding from the Dublin government and took over from the original RA. They had a serious problem because their whole politics was based around the idea Britain oppressed the catholic people, yet the streets were filled with British troops who held a generrally hostile attitude to the protestant communities as they saw the burned houses in BS and elsewhere, and were being brought tea and scones by catholic housewives. It is hard to think that their strategy after that did not focus on antagonisinhg the situation to ensure that the two communities couldn't live together peacefully under British rule. Their mentality is demonstrated by the murder of a mother for comforting a dieing soldier outside Divis Tower. Abducting teenage soldiers and shooting them in the back of the head, leaving bombs in working class pubs and shops, was always going to lead to a violent response from protestant workers and British troops. Since the Provos were exceedingly disciplined and clandestine this response largely took the form of abhorrent attacks against civilians. But to say protestants started shooting civilians out of some inate hate or desire to preserve their privilege is a gross over simplification. It is worth remembering that the UDA began as a neighbourhood watch association and if people were coming into our communities and leaving bombs that maimed our grandparents as they were enjoying their nip and a half, or killed toddlers out shopping, then we would all probably do the same. The subtleties of the situation and the potential for it to have developed differently are overlooked by those who uncritically accept the Provos interpretation that the problem was a national one. For example, it's an often overlooked part of history that the Woodvale UDA actually met with the Officials and argued that the two communities had more in common than they did with the rich of either state. Both nationalism's have a degree of responsibility for a stupid war that destroyed too many lives.

Quote:
However, my general tendancy of thought is still that Britain being FORCED out of Ireland would be a huge defeat for my ruling class, which is a ruling class that fucks about in the world a lot more than Irelands.

You don't sound like a liberal but you sound like someone motivated by dislike for their immediate society rather than serious internationalist analysis, a bit like those English anarchists who always hope their football team will lose. Britain only fucks around more because it has more resources at its disposal, it would have more still if it didn't have to deal with all the sub-proletarian scum like Revol. And the point stands that for the Republic to have sovereignty over all of Ulster would lead to such a massive wave of violence by protestant workers who would represent a disadvantaged group within Irish society and have exceptional unemployment rates and levels of deprivation in their communities. And in a genreation's time I'd still be sitting at my computer explaining to some Irish anarchist supporting the armed struggle for an independent ulster that nationalism's bollocks, it's absolute steaming shite.

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Cheers for that, Wayne. Thought you were ignoring me.

No problem Button, you are beautiful no matter what we say and words can't bring you down 8)

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the button
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Oct 7 2004 15:39

"There is only one thing worse than to be told to fuck off by Wayne, and that is not to be told to fuck off by Wayne." - Oscar Wilde (well almost wink )

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Oct 7 2004 19:40

Good analysis, Wayne.

redyred
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Oct 7 2004 22:34

Nice posts Wayne and Revol. Kinda pisses over the people who say yous are just trolls, though sadly not literally.

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Steven.
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Oct 8 2004 00:45
redyred wrote:
Nice posts Wayne and Revol. Kinda pisses over the people who say yous are just trolls, though sadly not literally.

yeah can i split all these ireland posts into a new thread? cos they're fucking interesting

Da_Original_Dis...
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Oct 13 2004 08:14
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a bit like those English anarchists who always hope their football team will lose.

I always used to hope theyd lose cause i wouldn't be woke up in the wee hours of the morning when its on for the 3rd time and my family are still climbing up the walls more motavated than ive ever seen them in my life. The sooner their out the better, you don't have to liste to a whole arena doin exactly the same thing.

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Steven.
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Sep 17 2010 22:29

just found this thread randomly, and it made me nostalgic for enrager 2004, because it is so amazing.

I miss Wayne

petey
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Sep 18 2010 00:14

this is pre-libcom?
i only met buthersapron and paul marsh at matb

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devoration1
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Sep 18 2010 05:17

So much English/Irish/Scottish speak.

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Choccy
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Sep 18 2010 08:35

jesus, I didn't join til about two months after this

vanilla.ice.baby
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Sep 18 2010 09:01

"I'd kick you all over the playpen after a five nappy headstart"?

grin

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Steven.
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Sep 18 2010 11:36
petey wrote:
this is pre-libcom?
i only met buthersapron and paul marsh at matb

yeah, it was renamed libcom on Mayday 2005. Those two both left, Paul Marsh when class war left en masse, and butchers started to hate us for some reason which I'm still not aware of, as we got on fine in person

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