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24th bnp scab union launch demo?

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futuretech68
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Feb 15 2007 00:58
24th bnp scab union launch demo?

Its always best to be open ! :

Well ive just read this article:

http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=70214

Does anyone have any news about a demo / direct - action on the 24th when the scab union is actually launched (Central London)

F**K the class traitors !

Smash the Scab Union !

Militant Anti - Fascism always !

Theres gotta be a demo / direct - action protest with this, even thou it coincides with the stop the war demo ! ! ! !

Post some news relevant ....

ftony
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Feb 15 2007 09:38

i think they're keeping the place secret except for members.

if anyone gets a sniff of some action, be sure to let antifa know (not that the buggers have replied to my email yet angry )

futuretech68
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Feb 15 2007 09:50

Yer 635 group leeds didnt reply to mine either ...

Well im sure if some aryan 'monkeys' are online they get the message, yer if we keep the revolt open it will have to secret and hay - presto we are winning the battle !

Time to find where the Scab Union launch is and get the Antifa gals and guys down...

futuretech68
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Feb 15 2007 10:18

yer woteva ! im surprised your a anarchist and cant understand peoples opression, well done your helping stop the bnp scab union launch, so much hot air ! how about the action for this !

Makhno
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Feb 15 2007 10:30

From your armchair, like usual.

wink

futuretech68
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Feb 15 2007 10:45

You said:

Here;s the thing dickhead, when your going to do an "Action" as you put it, it's best to not go around shoutting about it like an excitable toddler of his tits on lemonade.

I say !:

You call me mental and libcom promotes actions like 50 masked bikers fire-bombing a police station in Greece and you call me mental !

Rights so its best to keep actions secret, well it aint much of a action then, when 3 three men and his dog no about it !

Well get a plane from Belfast, but i suppose you will swim he channel being a eco - armchair - anarchist !

Anyway alot of petty arguing !

By being open about it, we can build for a action on the 24th ...

For Militant Anti - Fascism !

futuretech68
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Feb 15 2007 10:52

Anti - Fascism is a crock of shite, so you aint a Anarchist and your on libcom boards ! ...

You wonder what boards ie read well its this one:

http://libcom.org/forums/news/greek-anarchists-attack-prison

Think next time before you call me mental, you charlatan !

Less petty arguing !

For Militant Anti - Fascism on the 24th ...

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madashell
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Feb 15 2007 11:16
futuretech68 wrote:
Anti - Fascism is a crock of shite, so you aint a Anarchist and your on libcom boards ! ...

You wonder what boards ie read well its this one:

http://libcom.org/forums/news/greek-anarchists-attack-prison

Think next time before you call me mental, you charlatan !

Less petty arguing !

For Militant Anti - Fascism on the 24th ...

That "action" by those Greek anarchists was wank, as are insurrectionism and your sub-situ rambling. What the fuck do we need millitant anti-fascism against the BNP for these days anyway? Counterproductive, adolescent shit.

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Joseph Kay
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Feb 15 2007 11:23
revol68 wrote:
ah right so becuase that got posted as a news story

not even that, a forum post. which means 'libcom' agrees with every side of every argument on the boards, obviously roll eyes

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Joseph Kay
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Feb 15 2007 11:24
futuretech68 wrote:
"Anti - Fascism is a crock of shite" - so you aint a Anarchist and your on libcom boards ! ...

right, because anarchism = anti-fascism

although to be fair, that does seem to be your definition

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Ed
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Feb 15 2007 11:37

Revol, I'm surprised you managed to type anything with Gilles Dauve's cock in his mouth. Sorry but the 1936 comment is irrelevant. I mean, what would an anti-fascist mobilisation against this fascist scab union look more like: The Spanish Civil War and Revolution or AFA's mobilisations against the far-right in the 80s and 90s?

ftony
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Feb 15 2007 12:09
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anti fascism as an ideology (rather than a pratical response as part of the class struggle) has historically shafted anarchism.

i think, however, where a divisive, anti-working class party sets up a union, it certainly could become an important terrain of the class struggle should such a 'union' gain any popularity.

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Tacks
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Feb 15 2007 12:30

what an incredible load of shit on all sides.

Mobilising aganist the BNP's attempts to subvert and obscure the point of industrial organising and unions for their own divisive agenda is most definitely on the menu for anarchists.

The BNP have the ability to move the political debate in this counbtry way way to the right and take normal majority concerns like housing and welfare into a area of thinking concerned with immigration and corporatism, not autonomy and solidarity. They can and are doing a hell of a lot of damage, though currently no more than the conservative consensus in most newspapers; the difference is, the BNP will actually physically act on this kind of thinking and bring whole areas along with them.

It makes it much much harder to get our points across.

The initial thread on this discussed the possibility of the BNP/Solidarity creating a wave of anti-immigrant labour pickets and strikes. This is a real and serious threat.

So characterise it as a bunch of hardnuts who'd just as soon be hoolies rucking with also-ran nazis if you like, but that is neither the theory or practice of contemporary antifascism in this country.

Also, as i have tried to suggest before, futuretech is clearly not all there. Victimising him (and its gotta be a him) when your points are so blindingly obvious just illustrates a personal taste for abuse. Its not particularly hurtful, most nutters have very thick skins; its a poor comment on the people who line up 'OMG U NUTTER' when its self evident.

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JDMF
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Feb 15 2007 12:36

personal attacks should not be allowed on this forum anyway.

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Tacks
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Feb 15 2007 12:39
JDMF wrote:
personal attacks should not be allowed on this forum anyway.

yeah there is that grin

ftony
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Feb 15 2007 12:42
tacks wrote:
what an incredible load of shit on all sides.

sad

not *all* sides

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Tacks
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Feb 15 2007 12:48
ftony wrote:
tacks wrote:
what an incredible load of shit on all sides.

sad

not *all* sides

no, but then you weren't on one of the 'sides' that i'm referring too. Yes, you did make my point earlier, so what?

You want a fucking cookie or something? Fuck off!

[gives ftony a cookie]

ftony
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Feb 15 2007 12:50

you cut deep man, real deep...

thanks for the cookie though smile

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madashell
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Feb 15 2007 14:20
Tacks wrote:
what an incredible load of shit on all sides.

Mobilising aganist the BNP's attempts to subvert and obscure the point of industrial organising and unions for their own divisive agenda is most definitely on the menu for anarchists.

The BNP have the ability to move the political debate in this counbtry way way to the right and take normal majority concerns like housing and welfare into a area of thinking concerned with immigration and corporatism, not autonomy and solidarity. They can and are doing a hell of a lot of damage, though currently no more than the conservative consensus in most newspapers; the difference is, the BNP will actually physically act on this kind of thinking and bring whole areas along with them.

It makes it much much harder to get our points across.

The initial thread on this discussed the possibility of the BNP/Solidarity creating a wave of anti-immigrant labour pickets and strikes. This is a real and serious threat.

So characterise it as a bunch of hardnuts who'd just as soon be hoolies rucking with also-ran nazis if you like, but that is neither the theory or practice of contemporary antifascism in this country.

Also, as i have tried to suggest before, futuretech is clearly not all there. Victimising him (and its gotta be a him) when your points are so blindingly obvious just illustrates a personal taste for abuse. Its not particularly hurtful, most nutters have very thick skins; its a poor comment on the people who line up 'OMG U NUTTER' when its self evident.

Which is all fair enough, but it's one thing talking about organising against the BNP and another entirely to insist that only "militant" (i.e. violent) anti-fascism is worthwhile.

Fetishising violent tactics is as bad a mistake as absolute pacifism and just makes anarchists look like a bunch of dimwitted thugs and fantasists.

powertotheimagi...
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Feb 15 2007 16:30
Quote:
just makes anarchists look like a bunch of dimwitted thugs and fantasists.

Finally, the truth comes out, although the fashion can be pretty good.

Vaneigemappreci...
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Feb 15 2007 17:35
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Anti facism as an axis to organise round is bullshit, if there are fascists stirring up shit in your area or trying to make inroads you get together and deal with it on that basis ie it's harm to the working class.

That seems to be the emphasis of much of the literature that working class anti-fascist groups put out. I also think that anti-fascist organising can be quite a productive way of introducing people into class struggle politics.

Quote:
What's most embarrassing is that the Red Action AFA lot realised this many moons ago, the IWCA being a response to this, whilst our "hardier than hard anarcho anti fascists" still have their heads stuck in the 80's.

This may be the case with some people, but most of those who espouse the "kick it till it breaks" approach and nothing else are predominantly posers and arent involved with antifa or any other working class anti-fascist group. There is currently a real effort being made by some anti-fascist groups to move towards overt class struggle community based organising in an effort to take away the ground that the bnp et al organise on. Only a fool would think that fascism is going to disappear just because some of the fools who choose to follow it get a good kicking.

David in Atlanta
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Feb 16 2007 08:21

Organized heckling with a rhythm section sounds like it might work. i've seen more ku klux klan events brought to a halt with rude jokes and drums than with boots and stones. I call it the "point,laugh at and drown out" school of antifa

I'd agree, as a distant observer, that a serious attempt at fascist union organizing should be dealt with as a high tactical priority. There was one near here years back, it got to the point of African-American workers picketing against immigrant workers alongside open klan members before the food and commercial workers union stepped in, salted the plant and surrouding community with experienced leftist union members and turned it around. It worked but it seems to be doing it the hard way. Stop them before they get that far if possible.

I suppose my position is that anti-fascism is a necessary tactic of the class struggle, rather like militant strike support or direct action anti-militarism. Developing a broad, knowledgeable contempt for at least one pole of authoritarian politics among the working class can only be for the good, no?

raw
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Feb 16 2007 08:57

SO here you have a new comrade who wants to fight the BNP and the fascists and this is the reponse from the some of the Libcom regulars? Oh dear Revol, maybe you should stop reading your ladybird book of wibertarian communism and look at the reality of the situation.

A) There is a real need for direct action against those cunts in the BNP, against thier organisation and all political initiatives related to it. They must be destroyed ASAP.

b) There is a real need for a movement which engages on a mass popular level the struggles of people - be it around work, migration, gentrification, housing, police...etc.

I think some people in Antifa groups are trying to do both.

Anyway I think we constantly need a capability for street-based violence - as and when needed - be it against fascists, religious nutters or police.

Raw

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madashell
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Feb 16 2007 09:10
raw wrote:
SO here you have a new comrade who wants to fight the BNP and the fascists and this is the reponse from the some of the Libcom regulars? Oh dear Revol, maybe you should stop reading your ladybird book of wibertarian communism and look at the reality of the situation.

A) There is a real need for direct action against those cunts in the BNP, against thier organisation and all political initiatives related to it. They must be destroyed ASAP.

b) There is a real need for a movement which engages on a mass popular level the struggles of people - be it around work, migration, gentrification, housing, police...etc.

I think some people in Antifa groups are trying to do both.

Anyway I think we constantly need a capability for street-based violence - as and when needed - be it against fascists, religious nutters or police.

Futuretech isn't new, he just doesn't post much.

And the "reality of the situation" is that you're not going to do one jot of damage to the BNP by employing street level violence. That's not where their power lies.

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Serge Forward
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Feb 16 2007 09:26

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that it has 'no future' because I can see a number of ways they could make some inroads into workplaces. Course, I'm not going to say how they might actually do this, as I don't want to give the cunts any bright organising ideas.

Oh, alright then, just a little advice. The old self-immolation stunt is very good for a bit of publicity. If they did that a few times, then they'd be really popular.

ftony
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Feb 16 2007 09:29
Quote:
The old self-immolation stunt is very good for a bit of publicity

grin

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Feb 16 2007 10:45
madashell wrote:
raw wrote:
SO here you have a new comrade who wants to fight the BNP and the fascists and this is the reponse from the some of the Libcom regulars? Oh dear Revol, maybe you should stop reading your ladybird book of wibertarian communism and look at the reality of the situation.

A) There is a real need for direct action against those cunts in the BNP, against thier organisation and all political initiatives related to it. They must be destroyed ASAP.

b) There is a real need for a movement which engages on a mass popular level the struggles of people - be it around work, migration, gentrification, housing, police...etc.

I think some people in Antifa groups are trying to do both.

Anyway I think we constantly need a capability for street-based violence - as and when needed - be it against fascists, religious nutters or police.

Futuretech isn't new, he just doesn't post much.

And the "reality of the situation" is that you're not going to do one jot of damage to the BNP by employing street level violence. That's not where their power lies.

Oh no. They don't think that and we don't think that. The long term damage done by the BNP can only be cuntered by an alternative to them. However. If the BNP cannot function and cannot present itself as the common sense option for normal white people - thats damage. The difference between anarchists and the far right groups is FR tries to us the existing political system as much as it can.

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madashell
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Feb 16 2007 11:02
Tacks wrote:
If the BNP cannot function and cannot present itself as the common sense option for normal white people - thats damage.

Yeah, but I don't see how beating them up is going to stop them from functioning, never mind damaging their public image.

raw
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Feb 16 2007 11:10

Hence my B) argument.

And the BNP is not the biggest enemy I agree BUT like the Islamic mentals they are appealing to people who are disaffected with the establishment, if anything these are the people we would want to come nearer to us NOT these reaction elements. Therefore the BNP/Islamic nuts (most of which are organised as hierarchical political parties) are occupying a space where alienated, angry people are gravitating towards. I will argue that anarchists and libertarians should muscle into that space and offer something completely different. I'm not saying that we share any sort of similar politics but at the end of the day what drives people to these anti-establishment political parties is the conditions of living under capitalism.

Raw

ftony
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Feb 16 2007 11:41
madashell wrote:
Tacks wrote:
If the BNP cannot function and cannot present itself as the common sense option for normal white people - thats damage.

Yeah, but I don't see how beating them up is going to stop them from functioning, never mind damaging their public image.

if the new union wants to have some sort of street presence (say, on mayday marches), then surely physically sending them running would be a part of a strategy against them

a more complex issue would be if they ever get big enough to have strikes - do we cross their picket lines if we agree with why the strike is taking place (e.g. wages, layoffs, etc with no race issue involved, which would often happen in the day-to-day running of any union, fascist or otherwise)?

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Steven.
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Feb 16 2007 11:57
revol68 wrote:
You're talking like this group will get anywhere, it won't.

True dat. And futuretech's just a fucking nutter, who has caused problems for various anarchist groups about the place.